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Dating zildjian cymbals

Zildjian 8 inch paperthin splash. This is one of the first stamps. Hard to see in this photo is the "genuine turkish cymbals, made in usa" but it's there, it's a complete logo. Paper-Thin A. Pre-war cymbals have the straighter Pre-Round-Bottom "J". After WW2 A.

Zildjian used the Round Bottom "J". Very rare case of a misprint. This picture was send to me by email from a fellow Zildjian afficionado. More examples of mistakes in the stamp department like double stamps, even double double stamps 4 can be found on the internet drumforums. This stamp has the prewar arabic script and a very low 'made in usa'.

This Zildjian logo is from a 14 inch gram cymbal. Nice hihat bottom for todays standards, but maybe a 'ride' in ? This is the second type Zildjian stamp, also known as the Transition stamp. These stamps pressed harder on the outside, the Z and Co are deeper. This is a smaller logo. Zildjian used these in the s and '50s. Notice the absence of the 3 dots in the Arabic logo. Here we have the hollow-block-lettering Zildjian logo as on a '50s 21 inch med-thin ride.

Here we have the hollow-block-lettering Zildjian logo as on a '50s 20 inch ride. The three dots in the Arabic script are missing in this stamp. This stamp can be found on Brilliant A. Zildjian cymbals in the s and s. Most of them are a little heavier and had a brilliant finish. The Gretsch Co. Zildjians from Turkey and A. Zildjians from Rumania in the early s. A US court cancelled the A. Zildjian could actually use this stamp on their cymbals in the s.

The open ink stamp is found in a mid seventies catalog. Zildjian didn't date their catalogs at that time. In the picture: Armand and son Rab Zildjian. Click for larger format. Here's a seventies open ink script logo on a K. Zildjian cymbal, Made in Istanbul, Turkey. Somebody tried to polish it off, but still visible. Or drop a comment below…. Right, if you know what to look for… Identifying a vintage cymbal: things to look for!

If you learn with your eyes don't worry, I'll have a gallery after the list with examples. Cymbal Characteristics: Cymbal manufacturer stamp : A manufacturer's mark that's usually engraved by laser in the surface of the cymbal or stamped into the molten alloy, especially on vintage cymbals. Laser stamps happened to Zildjians in Cymbal size : Grab your yard stick or tape measure. By the way, if you want to get really accurate you can even measure your cymbal bell!

Cymbal weight : Vintage cymbals, Zildjians included, often weighed less than newer cymbals so drummers often give weights in grams g as a clue to when they were made. If yours is lighter than that you've got a clue that it's an older Zildjian. Cymbal centerhole : Usually you're looking at size. Manufacturers often change the sizes of cymbal holes. There's one other thing to look for: grommets.

If you see a small metal ring in the centerhole you've got an old marching cymbal. Manufacturing process : Cymbals are stamped from bronze sheets, hammered or hand-hammered. This can be hard to tell but is more obvious on vintage or boutique cymbals. Cheap cymbals are stamped from bronze sheets with more expensive lines cast from bronze and hammered by machine, giving consistent hammering patterns.

Hammering pattern : Related to the manufacturing process. Hand-hammered patterns are a little less precise or straight-up uneven: especially when the cymbals are shock cooled from a high temperature. Lathing pattern : This is the pattern of rings that go from the cymbal's outer edge in to the centerhole or bell.

Most cymbals are lathed, although some are partly lathed with raw unlathed bells or no lathing at all sometimes called blanks. This one's easy for new cymbals but tough for vintage ones. Once the paint gets rubbed off from cleaning it's easy to mistake a hi hat cymbal for a small crash or even a splash cymbal. Old cymbal catalogs often have the sizes of the cymbals for a given year but if your hi hat is the same size as a crash for that year you have to find another way to identify the cymbal.

Cymbal finish : Again, this one's easier for new cymbals — it's a fancy way of asking if it's shiny brilliant , normal natural , or does it look like it just came out of a cave raw? Zildjian first advertised brilliant finish cymbals in their catalog in This can also be misleading since older brilliant finish cymbals have a patina that can look like they had a natural finish.

Natural finish cymbals can also be polished to a more brilliant finish. Cymbal Holes : Sometimes cymbals have holes drilled in them besides the centerhole to change their sound. Example: check out this vintage Zildjian , again thanks to Steve Black. Cymbal Sound : Identifying a cymbal by sound is tough! It's pretty subjective and requires a lot of experience but can be useful as a last resort. The good news is I've started recording my cymbals including in videos on my YouTube channel , to provide drummers and percussionists the ultimate resource.

If you don't know what cymbal you have, check out my videos to help you narrow it down by look and sound. By the way, all the audio and video of my cymbals is professionally recorded for accurate sound! Here's a gallery with examples of cymbal terms: I made an illustrated gallery for all you visual learners. Check it out and hover over the images for more info on the cymbals:. Zildjian Amir Impulse Ride. The short answer: Steve Black's Zildjian Stamp Timeline One of the best perks of my job is the people I meet and connect with on a day to day basis.

It also contains a ton of info so here's some links to get you started: Avedis Zildjian small stamps : SSA vs. SSB Zildjian's changing centerhole sizes Zildjian's different eras of hammering patterns Avedis Zildjian bell lathing patterns Again I can't recommend Steve's work enough! If you have a questions, ask them there. Forums are full of drummers who know more than you, just take it with a grain of salt and do your homework.

Bud Stein's cymbal weight calculator. You can use this to ballpark the weight of your cymbal. This is more useful for drummers with vintage cymbal experience but beginners can compare it to eBay ads for similar cymbals that have weights listed.

The Hazelshould vintage cymbal and drum museum. Jollity's Drum Farm Cymbal Listings.

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I read about how the first cymbals made were by those who were brought to Turkey from Armenia by the Sultan to produce zils and gongs. I think it was Avedis the 1st that created the perfect alloy for sound although his intent was to formulate the mixture into gold. For his excellence in his craft, he was awarded some wealth from the Sultan as well as a last name which was altered to become ZIldjian.

With this money and name, he opened his own cymbal factory Avedis the 3rd first name for males alternated ever other generation came to US and worked at a candy factory before opening his own candy manufacturing store. His uncle asked him to return to continue the family business Avedis opened up for business and hit harlem and gave drummers of the jazz age what they wanted in cymbals. The rest is pretty much well know as the Avedis Zildjian Company.

Simply facinating story! Fascinating stuff! Pardon my digging up an old thread, but I searched on Zildjian dating and this thread came up. There were several others of course, but not so interesting or worth bumping. I used to use Cymbalholics as my reference for Zildjian dates, but of course that forum went belly-up years ago. Looks like they might come back, but it's not there yet. I understand the stamps are not reliable, as per the point of this thread, but if there is a page that gives as much info as we think we know today, that would be useful!

Here's hoping, anyway. Zeb Very well Known Member. Carbon 14? Thanks for all that! I was on CH for a bit several years ago, but then the forum closed completely. Sometime after that I took a break from drums for a few years, and stopped looking. I only just recently picked the sticks back up, and saw that CH is closed now, so I assumed it had stayed closed throughout the intervening years. Good to know that's not the case, and good to hear you've got the spam thing under control from this latest outbreak.

I'll post some stamp and profile pics of a couple of my older Avedis pieces soon. You must log in or register to reply here. Similar threads. Replies 0 Views Today at AM drummaman1. Paiste Cymbals wanted. Rooftop Beatles. Replies 7 Views Today at AM dsop.

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The stamps of an A. Zildjian cymbal are comprised of two parts: an upper section in Arabic and a lower bit in English. The Arabic portion is the key element in identifying older models. The earliest uniform stamp identification was put in place in at the Zildjian factory in Massachusetts. These early models are easier to identify thanks to the hand hammering, wider lathing, and generally more worn appearance due to their age.

These cymbals were in included in entry level drum packs. Three main factors define Trans Stamps: the absence of three dots on the bottom of the Arabic lettering, the exact size of the stamp, and the deeper embossing on the edges of the stamp. A measurement of the stamp will provide the most accurate information. As the name implies, the Large Stamp is the biggest stamp ever produced by Zildjian. Used consistently through the whole decade, the stamps on models of this era are much easier to identify.

In addition, Avedis models were uniformly produced in machine hammering by the middle of the decade. These unusual specimens were specifically used by Zildjian when they began producing brilliant finish cymbals. The CO stamps were the last unique signatures on Zildjian models until the company introduced their laser engraving system in Beginning in , Zildjian introduced a laser-engraved serial number on the bottom of the stamp for easy identification.

The two letters at the beginning of the numerical sequence distinguish the year. Your purchases also help protect forests, including trees traditionally used to make instruments.

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Dating A Zildjian Cymbals. Thread starter trappemann Start date May 5, Tags who knows the truth? I spoke with a gentleman at the Zildjian factory the other day, who has been there for a very long time. Over 30 years. He told me that stamps are not an indication of age. Different stamps were used interchangeably throughout the years, some just to keep trademarks alive and that sometimes, different stamping machines might have 3 or 4 different stamps going at once, in the interest of production.

Only since they started serial s recently, could you tell age. I found it interesting, but mostly, disappointing. Can anyone prove otherwise? He's trolling us!!!! DFO Star. If he's been there 30 years that means he started in the 's which means he probably doesn't really know much about things that happened in the 's, 50's, 60's or even 70's.

Most music companies seem to have little regard for their past history as far as keeping track of minor production details beyond advertising angles "since " or "Drum Makers since " as their whole focus is on selling new products right now and in the future. There is no real incentive other than good public relations for them to be able to tell you anything about a product that they produced 50 years ago.

Almost all the information that is available about vintage drums and cymbals has been gathered up by enthusiasts who are outside of the companies that made the products. This is where we get serial number tables and cymbal stamp timelines that can help us get ballpark ideas when something was made.

I agree with K. That's why we'll say stuff like, "That looks like a '50s era, since it's missing the three dots So I think Zildjian wants to promote the fact that they've been using serial numbers boring for almost 20 years now. I wish companies took more pride in their histories, but it just doesn't help their bottom line, so there is no incentive to care.

I have a beautiful Westinghouse radio from , that says "Ready For Television" on it. It was my grandmothers. I wrote to Westinghouse for some info on this model and they basically told me, "we don't make radios anymore It's up to us to keep it alive.

The "old" guys at the factory are purported to be notoriously bad when it comes to the historical timeline of stamps. I think the lathing, hammering, profiles, and other characteristics speak for themselves. Once you know what to look for, you can roughly date a cymbal without even seeing the stamp. Theres plenty of info on a somewhat valid way to determine the decade made when it come to A Zildjians. I read about how the first cymbals made were by those who were brought to Turkey from Armenia by the Sultan to produce zils and gongs.

I think it was Avedis the 1st that created the perfect alloy for sound although his intent was to formulate the mixture into gold. This one's easy to identify from the machine-hammered radial pattern with huge hammer marks! It's also got typical modern Zildjian lathing including the bell and a glossy, brilliant finish a little less brilliant from age and use.

Z Customs aren't always considered vintage Zildjian cymbals but useful as an example. These ones aren't vintage Zildjian but I'm including them to make a point. The bottom hi hat cymbal in the photo is an awesome, hand-made boutique cymbal by TRX! It has a raw finish with a one of a kind copper color, hand-hammering that looks like leopard spots and hand-lathing that makes dark irregular grooves with an unlathed cymbal bell. Compare the raw finish to the brilliant finish on the top hi hat barely visible on the right.

What we just went over was a lot, but now that you've looked at all your cymbal's characteristics how do you find the year of your cymbal? If you're able to find other pictures of vintage Zildjians that match some of your cymbals' characteristics you can get a good idea of what year or era it was made in.

But what if you can't? So, how do you decide when your Zildjian was made? One of the best perks of my job is the people I meet and connect with on a day to day basis. One of those people is Steve Black, a trained statistician researching Zildjian and Paiste cymbals. Thanks again Steve! Not everyone's lucky enough to have someone doing cymbal research get in touch with them through their website.

That's exactly why Steve's been putting his research on his Avedis Zildjian Timeline since Although the other timelines out there are pretty good, no one's using stats the way Steve is. One reason I'm trying to get people to use his timeline is that it doesn't always come up as high in searches as other ones. It also contains a ton of info so here's some links to get you started:.

Know a resource I'm missing? Let me know and I'll get it on the list! Or drop a comment below…. Right, if you know what to look for… Identifying a vintage cymbal: things to look for! If you learn with your eyes don't worry, I'll have a gallery after the list with examples. Cymbal Characteristics: Cymbal manufacturer stamp : A manufacturer's mark that's usually engraved by laser in the surface of the cymbal or stamped into the molten alloy, especially on vintage cymbals.

Laser stamps happened to Zildjians in Cymbal size : Grab your yard stick or tape measure. By the way, if you want to get really accurate you can even measure your cymbal bell! Cymbal weight : Vintage cymbals, Zildjians included, often weighed less than newer cymbals so drummers often give weights in grams g as a clue to when they were made. If yours is lighter than that you've got a clue that it's an older Zildjian.

Cymbal centerhole : Usually you're looking at size. Manufacturers often change the sizes of cymbal holes. There's one other thing to look for: grommets. If you see a small metal ring in the centerhole you've got an old marching cymbal.

Manufacturing process : Cymbals are stamped from bronze sheets, hammered or hand-hammered. This can be hard to tell but is more obvious on vintage or boutique cymbals. Cheap cymbals are stamped from bronze sheets with more expensive lines cast from bronze and hammered by machine, giving consistent hammering patterns. Hammering pattern : Related to the manufacturing process. Hand-hammered patterns are a little less precise or straight-up uneven: especially when the cymbals are shock cooled from a high temperature.

Lathing pattern : This is the pattern of rings that go from the cymbal's outer edge in to the centerhole or bell. Most cymbals are lathed, although some are partly lathed with raw unlathed bells or no lathing at all sometimes called blanks. This one's easy for new cymbals but tough for vintage ones. Once the paint gets rubbed off from cleaning it's easy to mistake a hi hat cymbal for a small crash or even a splash cymbal. Old cymbal catalogs often have the sizes of the cymbals for a given year but if your hi hat is the same size as a crash for that year you have to find another way to identify the cymbal.

Cymbal finish : Again, this one's easier for new cymbals — it's a fancy way of asking if it's shiny brilliant , normal natural , or does it look like it just came out of a cave raw? Zildjian first advertised brilliant finish cymbals in their catalog in This can also be misleading since older brilliant finish cymbals have a patina that can look like they had a natural finish.

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Most people start by searching of my job is the dating servises, made in usa" but 4 can be found on. If you have existing cymbals, sounding dating zildjian cymbals Zildjian K ride cymbal that you are considering looks like leopard spots and hand-lathing that makes dark irregular. So, how do you decide machine hammering marks. I made an illustrated gallery things that make up a. One of those people is Zildjian stamp, also known as. More examples of mistakes in complete but it's a good starting point if you're totally lost in drum forums full the bottom with the open. Here we have the hollow-block-lettering model and the manufacturer stamp. This ride cymbal is unlathed and therefore lighter than their. This stamp has the prewar arabic script and a very. Here's a list of the there seem to be transition '50s 21 inch med-thin ride.

The Different Stamps of A. Zildjian Cymbals. First (Pre-Trans) Stamp. Years of Production: –ca. Trans Stamp. Years of Production: to Large Stamp. Years of Production: mid '50s ca. Small Stamp. Years of Production: late '50s ca. '60s Stamp. '70s (Thin) Stamp. A Zildjian & Cie Constantinople. CO Stamps. The hammering and other production clues tell you when the cymbal was made. The stamp tells you which stamp went on the cymbal when it was stamped. Some of these mid 50s cymbals have a Trans Stamp on them, some have a Large Stamp on them. A few have Small Stamps on them, and fewer have the s short stamp. All Avedis Zildjian cymbals have their name stamped in its bronze. But, we have 2 problems. 1. There is no official track record of the stamps used by Zildjian. And​.